I agree....sad but predictable, yes? Maybe you will have to add creation of new cool woman cartoon character to the list of future 'to do's'.

Cause Olive Oyl is such a HUGE TURNON.

She's a token love interest designed as the object of desire for a male protagonist. Even if the audience isn't meant to be turned on by her, Popeye and Bruno pretty clearly are.

Well, as I discussed with Robin, I think there is a significant difference in who is being turned on by her...

While we're on the topic, I remember one interesting episode in which Popeye and Bluto returned from the sea to find that Olive Oyl had gained a significant amount of weight. Bluto was actually very accepting of this, whereas Popeye went on his usual spinach rampage, beat up Bluto, and forced Olive Oyl to go on a diet.

I'm curious if Olive Oyl was in some way intended as a parody of the sex-symbol cartoons (like Betty Boop). It begs a bit of research...

She's a token love interest designed as the object of desire for a male protagonist.

Olive Oyl predates Popeye. She was actually the token sister of Castor Oyl, who used to be the star of Thimble Theater. When Popeye showed up and took over the strip, her role was changed to "love interest".

I'm not sure if that's a promotion or a demotion, but the comic strip was originally a bit more of an ensemble cast before the cartoons reduced everything to "Popeye and Bluto fight over Olive Oyl" (or the occasional "Popeye chases Swee'pea through a construction site", I guess).

In the current Popeye storyline, Olive is actually president of Goon Island (see icon!), although she's been offscreen for a week or so. I suppose one could argue that I know too much about the history of Popeye.

I don't think I'd classify Josie and the Pussycats as "sex objects" though. They're an Archie spin-off whose target audience is/was largely young girls.

Not saying Archie's ever been particularly enlightened in terms of characterization of women, but Josie and company aren't token love interests like Olive or Jessica, nor were they designed solely for a male heterosexual audience like Vampirella or Betty Boop.

That said, I do wish they could have asked a Wonder Woman question or something like that.

Wonder Woman's weakness, though it's not talked about anymore, is bondage. Indeed, her early comics saw her getting bound up in just about every issue, with normal old Steve Trevor having to unbind her.

"Confinement to WW and the Amazons is just a sporting game, an actual enjoyment of being subdued. This, my dear friend, is the one truly great contribution of my Wonder Woman strip to moral education of the young. The only hope for peace is to teach people who are full of pep and unbound force to enjoy being bound. Women are exciting for this one reason - it is the secret of women's allure - women enjoy submission, being bound. This I bring out in the Paradise Island sequences where the girls beg for chains and enjoy wearing them." -William Moulton Marston (creator of Wonder Woman)

But, yes...she was and is also a strong, empowered woman. ;)

Its not "not talked about anymore" it's been retconned away with the Crisis reboot. She has no weaknesses in current continuity, and hasn't in twenty years.

And Steve got bound up loads of times in the early issues, and if you read the Marston-written archives Diana tended to free herself more often than not. :)

I wish someone would retcon my weaknesses.

Still, isn't that whole thing about enjoying being bound a little creepy?

Lots of people do that for fun.

Yes, you're right. And my humor is apparently not carrying over too well into these comments...

But he WAS writing a comic book for children. That's got to count for at least partial points on the creepy scale.

I'd also love to find the image where she ties up the other women and dresses them up like deer, but seeing as I'm at work, that's probably not the best of ideas. ;)

Sorry, that was me. Don't know how I got logged out.

The whole point of Wonder Woman though, was that she always and constantly broke free of her bondage. She didn't need rescue.

Admittedly Marston did have his kinks, but a lot of his point was that a woman's strength and power was constantly within her grasp provided she's willing to reach for it. Bondage is a game for the Amazons because they, like Diana, can always get out of them.

I have to admit, he had a very very effective way of expressing his opinions. :-) Even half a century later, I can see why the man never lacked for a date.

Uh...that sort of sounds like Masochism. Actually, it sounds a lot like Masochism.

And what's with this romanticising women thing? I mean, is it really positive to believe that women are inherently pure and honest? Isn't that a big part of why men are taught to protect them in the first place?

Masochism and bondage aren't the same thing, you realize. It doesn't hurt the Amazons to play at being bound when they aren't. There's no pain inflicted, no harm, thus no masochism. I'm not saying the guy was perfect. His idealization of women is definitely flawed. However, Wonder Woman was clearly born as much from an attempt of symbolic empowerment as it is from his own kinks.

I was more referring to the "men have an innate desire to be controlled by women" thing.

And you're right, there is a difference between masochism and bondage, and masochism does often involve physical pain...

But I think it can also involve the need to be submissive, to have someone do all the thinking for you, to take all responsibility from you.

I don't think this is innate in anyone, I think this is taught. And for the most part, I don't think it's a positive thing (though there are those places where the line blurs...the film Secretary is a good example).

I'm very sorry, Robin, for taking over your post with my half-assed commentary. I promise to try harder in the future.